My training confession – I ignore a lot of professional trainers.
Let me elaborate. In no way am I saying that I know more about training than most trainers. However, I know more about Great Pyrenees than most trainers.
Regardless of what any trainer says, there is such a thing as an independent dog. An independent dog is not a “dominant dog” and needs to be embraced, not changed. The Great Pyrenees and other livestock guardian breeds are independent dogs – I really don’t know how anyone can argue that. A livestock guardian dog can spend days, even weeks, alone and do their job exceptionally well. They don’t need direction, but more importantly, they don’t want direction.
Atka and I have attended a few training events over the last year. All of these events were very basic for Atka, but it got him working in a new environment with different stimulation – something his adolescent brain desperately needs!
At one point, the trainer had all the dogs walking in a large circle to practice loose leash walking. She called out for us to stop and I asked Atka for a sit. He sat, but after a few seconds, his butt slowly slid back until he was in a down.
Lazy butt.
The trainer noticed this and made a snarky remark about Atka being dominant and I needed to put him back in his place. She suggested doing this by yanking the leash upward to force him into a sit.
First of all, I don’t believe in forcing my dog into anything. Secondly, you really expect me to pull a 130 lb dog up when he absolutely does not want to be up? Good luck with that one. I’ll pass.
Similar incidents have happened at several other events and they always frustrate me. Atka is never going to stay in a sit. He hates being in a sit. I think it’s partly because he’s lazy, partly because it’s hard to keep his legs from slipping, partly because he simply doesn’t care, and partly because he likes the cool floor on his belly.
To be completely honest, I don’t care how he relaxes. I only care that he actually relaxes. Getting a Great Pyrenees to enjoy training is a task itself. I want him to have a good experience and if that means being in a down, I’m fine with that.
Thankfully, Atka and I have been working with a trainer recently who gets pyrs and more importantly, gets Atka. He’s not a puppet. I’m not going to make him do as I please all the time. He’s an independent boy with his own mind and he deserves to express that. As long as he’s behaving, he can relax however he wants.
So, tell me. What’s your training confession?
This post is part of the Positive Pet Training Blog Hop, hosted by Cascadian Nomads,Tenacious Little Terrier and Rubicon Days. This month’s theme is Training Confessions and the next hop begins on March 7th. The hop happens on the first Monday of every month, and is open for a full week – please join us in spreading the word about the rewards of positive training!
I don’t think anything is absolute, and that would include dog training. There has to be some slack given for individual personalities.
Luke doesn’t like sitting either. He is more comfortable in a down, so if that’s what he wants to do, I let him. To me the point is that they are staying in one place, so why not let them be comfortable while doing it?
Gosh, it never even occurred to me that he was being disobedient or anything. If I do need him in a sit for some reason, I just gesture him to stand up and try the sit again, I wouldn’t even consider forcing him.
I agree! Pyrs are SUPER independent. Our 9 month old male, Rocky, will take obedience training for a while, but gets bored very easily, which I’ve found happening with other Pyrs we’ve had. They humor us for a while, then they’re done! When he gets to that point, it makes obedience class a little difficult, but when we’re home, we try to use more “Pyr common sense” regarding our “homework”! You have to keep it short & sweet with them, & we practice our training in short increments, to keep the boredom from setting in!
My confession: I used to listen to those teachers that said to yank the leash! I was in classes where students with dogs as big as Atka were given prong collars so the dog would pay attention to the leash yank. I am so glad to have finally realized how wrong this was and discovered a better way. My positive reinforcement training epiphany, as it has come to be known, was partly brought on by learning more and more about each breed, and each dogs, individuality. Some dogs do not want to sit, and unless you are really determined to get your dog a OTCH, that’s okay! And if you are really determined to get a dog that doesn’t want to sit an OTCH, maybe you should examine more deeply why you have a dog? Dogs are not puppets. It is our job as trainers and their humans to love them no matter what, sit or not! Thanks for your confession and for joining the hop!
It’s great you found a trainer that is a better fit for you and Atka. Mr. N is from an independent breed too so we work on engagement a lot and motivation and he’s a happy worker!
I decided a long time ago to learn from trainers when I went to puppy school, but treat my dogs as individuals as they grow and mature. Sydney doesn’t like to go into a sit, so I don’t make her – when I’m handing out treats, I expect my dogs to be calm and wait for their turn.
I think many people would think my dogs are horribly behaved, but I think they’re great. Today, a had one of my cars detailed at home (I’m selling a car!!!) and the two men kept commenting on how well behaved my dogs are and that it was cool that they didn’t take off (our property isn’t fenced). It was nice to hear. Our dogs ARE well behaved. I don’t make them do things and I don’t put them in situations that make them behave poorly.
I’m so glad, too, that you guys have found a better trainer for you and Atka! How silly to say that a dog who lays down instead of sitting is being dominant. Seriously, what on earth would dominance possibly have to do with that?! As you say, laying down is more comfortable.
Nala used to slide into a down, or lay down instead of sitting when asked, quite often. It turned out that she was just guessing what the words meant, and had a big reinforcement history for being in a down. So really she was trying her hardest, not being defiant! I made sure to cue sits and reinforce them generously for a while, and problem solved. Then I taught her to sit pretty, and she started offering that when I said sit–for exactly the same reason, that she expected me to tell her to “pretty” and figured she would get a head start! This is why training is a lifelong thing–you have to balance motivation and reinforcement history between lots of different things, which means you might temporarily break a behavior and have to explain it again. I think this stuff is so interesting and fun!
Ruby tends to slide into a down as well, especially for stays. I’m not that picky about it, we are certainly never going to be in an obedience class!
If you want your dog to sit, then make him sit by actually telling him to “sit”. If you want him down, say “down”.
If you don’t care, use a different word. How about “relax”? Or say nothing at all and leave it to the dog.
How should any dog, independent or with a great “will to please”, ever learn what you want if you don’t mind? Telling your dog to “sit” and then just let the dog (decide and) do what he wants is simply not fair.
OK I do not own a Great Pyrenees but a Hovawart and a Dachshund – and yes most of the time I don’t care if they sit or not – and then I just say nothing. If I say “sit” then I want them to sit, and they know it (and most of the time they do sit then). 🙂